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Episode Summary
🌠 Stargazing meets social change in this eye-opening episode!
Mike Simmons, founder of Astronomers 4 Equity and creator of the upcoming “Big Impact Astronomy” podcast, takes us on a celestial journey from Iran to Ukraine. 🚀
🔭 Discover how looking up at the stars can change lives down here on Earth:
- Empowering individuals in unexpected ways
- Transforming entire communities through cosmic wonder
🌍 Explore the changing face of astronomy:
- From old guys with telescopes to diverse, young enthusiasts
- How light pollution challenges our connection to the night sky
📚 Learn about astronomy as a powerful educational tool:
- Inspiring future scientists and engineers
- Bridging gaps in underserved communities worldwide
🧳 Peek into the future of cosmic outreach:
- Astronomy tourism that makes a difference
- Connecting stargazers with grassroots initiatives globally
Throughout this conversation, one thing becomes clear: the simple act of gazing at the night sky has the power to unite us all. It’s not just about pretty lights in the darkness – it’s about fostering a sense of global community and shared awe at the universe we all call home. 🌟
Questions Asked
🌠 Why even look up at the sky?
🔭 How has astronomy changed with generations?
🌍 What’s your experience with the worldwide community of astronomers?
💡 How does light pollution affect people’s connection to the night sky?
🚀 How has the space age reboot changed the world of astronomy?
👥 What shifts do you see in astronomy communities over the next 50 years?
📚 Are there any philosophies or books you recommend for those interested in astronomy?
🌟 How does astronomy tourism fit into your future plans?
🧠 Can you tell us about your experience as a neurodiverse individual in astronomy?
🛸 If you were to go to space, what would you bring with you?
Main Points, Timeline
00:03 🌠 Importance of looking up at the sky, despite increasing light pollution
00:36 🏙️ Most people live in cities now, limiting their view of the true night sky
01:00 🔭 Dark sky experiences reveal the spectacular nature of our celestial neighborhood
03:01 📚 Public awareness of astronomy has increased due to media and technology
05:20 🚀 We’re living in a golden age of astronomy with advanced technology and instruments
05:51 👥 Shift from mostly older male astronomers to younger, more diverse communities globally
07:47 👩🚀 Astronomical communities in places like Iran are predominantly young women
11:22 🌍 Americans tend to be isolated in their astronomical perspective
15:20 🤝 Astronomy can be used to improve people’s lives and situations in communities
17:24 🎓 Many people worldwide are “unserved” in terms of astronomical opportunities
17:41 🌟 The sky is a universal laboratory, accessible even in remote locations
19:05 🔬 Astronomy connects with all STEM fields and can encourage people into various sciences
19:41 🌈 Astronomy for Equity aims to give everyone the same opportunity in astronomy
24:20 📺 “Big Impact Astronomy” show will feature stories of people making a difference through astronomy
30:18 🌎 Importance of the “overview effect” in understanding Earth’s place in the universe
35:52 📱 Smartphone apps can help people learn about and engage with the night sky
35:58 🧭 Observing celestial movements gives a three-dimensional sense of the solar system
41:19 🎒 Plans for astronomy tourism to support local initiatives and create awareness
47:03 🇺🇦 Mention of supporting astronomy students in Ukraine during wartime
45:20 🚀 Discussion on what one would bring to space (emphasis on open-mindedness and curiosity)
Episode Transcript
{This Transcript is Machine Generated. It has not been edited by a human, yet.}
Jacob Sager (00:03)
Today I am with Mike Simmons and we’re going to talk about astronomy, which I think historically is a very politicized science in which people have been burnt at the stake and is also one of just great beauty and art and wonder and awe. So I want to ask you, Mike, as somebody who works in astronomy and works with astronomers all around the world in the year 2024, why even
Look up at the sky.
Mike Simmons (00:36)
well, that’s a big question and it’s an important one because not very many people do that anymore. And it’s a big, big loss. And it’s a question that people ask because they haven’t seen the sky, not as it really is. have light pollution is the main thing. Most people live in cities now and they’re not able to see the sky as it really is. When you do get to a dark place and see the sky as it really is,
It’s just unbelievable. It’s spectacular. And what you’re seeing is the Milky Way, which is our galaxy. You’re seeing our whole celestial neighborhood, a hundred billion other stars, the planets, everything out there that people read about. That’s just one of many, many reasons. But people ask that question because they don’t, they don’t know about it. It’s like saying, well, why bother going, out into nature? It’s dirty
there, you know, well because that there’s an awful lot there that to that it has to offer. And there are a lot of other reasons that astronomy is really important. I won’t go into all of them right away because I think we’ll get into that. But we’ve just lost our connection with the sky in the last 100, 150 years after millions of years looking
Jacob Sager (02:03)
Well, let me ask you something about this. In the last 100 and 150 years, there’s this interesting, divergence isn’t the word, because it’s just like there’s this crisscross in which people have been more removed from the night sky by the abundance of electrical lights. And at the same time, the science and knowledge of what we can see and what even we can’t see on Earth, but now have tools to see beyond
with satellites out in space and telescopes out in space. I’m curious what your thought is on that juxtaposition, I guess, between people being more removed from the stars yet when there’s a big announcement in the field of astronomy, the public reads about it at a greater, I would say greater penetration possibly than 150 years ago, but maybe not.
Mike Simmons (03:01)
Yes, no, absolutely. It’s a really good point too, that people are more aware of astronomy than they have ever been. Because you look up at the sky and you really don’t know what it’s all about. Most people didn’t back then. And there wasn’t as much in the way of media, books about astronomy, TikTok and, you know, every other possible way that people learned about things.
And now it’s not only that, but instead of having those few people who had telescopes and looked up into the sky and explored the planets and star clusters and other galaxies, everybody does because we have rovers rolling around on Mars showing us things we never could have imagined. We have spacecraft at other planets. We have space telescopes and new instruments that
giving us a view and knowledge about things throughout the galaxy and throughout the universe way beyond we ever could have done before. So there’s a much bigger connection with the science of astronomy and awareness of the distant things, but ironically people don’t realize that this is something that you can only experience on the internet. That you can go out and look up at these things when you look
through a telescope at the moon. When you look at Saturn and see its rings, when you see another galaxy in a telescope from a dark location, even if it’s a little smudge, knowing that it’s dozens of millions of light years away, you’re experiencing it directly. And you may not ever see anything like the pictures that you get from telescopes, but you’re experiencing it directly.
So it’s a little bit like spending all your time looking at travel documentaries, but never going anywhere. You can learn a lot about other places, but if you never go there, you’re really missing the personal experience. And people don’t even realize they can do this. It’s right there. It always was.
Jacob Sager (05:20)
Well, you talk about how the public has a better perception maybe than in the past, but just kind of like a little bit. And it seems that astronomers, when there’s some big public news about astronomy, be it a comet or the eclipse or something else, they’ll bring an astronomer out to the public. But there seems to be a worldwide community, both in academia and in non -academia, of astronomers. What’s your experience with
Mike Simmons (05:51)
Well, that’s absolutely true and there always have been amateur astronomers. Those who are hobbyists, who explore the sky, used to be amateur telescope makers. We don’t have to make our own telescopes any longer. We can buy a dizzying array of telescopes. And that’s always been the larger group. People who really were just amazed by
this exploration of the universe. And there was a big separation between them when I was younger. There were scientists and then there were others. That line has blurred and both of the communities have grown. So you find lots of professional astronomers who are doing communications with the public, which they never bothered to do before doing outreach. Amateur astronomers used to mostly
just do things on their own, take pictures or go to a dark place. Now the biggest activity around the world is sharing the night sky with other people, taking your telescope to a public location and spending the evening showing people things through the telescope. Evangelists, you know, who have this passion for what they’ve discovered and they know nobody else knows about it. And so that’s the biggest thing.
So you have professionals who do that. You also have citizen scientists in amateur astronomy who are contributing to the science of astronomy. And there are a number of reasons why that’s increased and is actually really critical for science because we collect so much data now. So things have changed a lot during my lifetime.
Jacob Sager (07:47)
One thing that I think is interesting about astronomy is the history of Galileo being burnt at the stake. A fundamental truth that was observable but took the process of science and data and observation.
to come to some conclusions or be able to draw out these conclusions, that that conclusion was so threatening to the powers that be. At that time, the Catholic Church in Europe. But I’m curious with so much you say, so much has changed in your lifetime. Is there any kind of discovery or conversation in astronomy that could take place during this lifetime that could be very threatening to the powers that be, whoever they
Mike Simmons (08:34)
well, first of all, I want to correct one thing. Galileo didn’t get burned at the stake. Giordano Bruno at the same time did get burned to the state. Galileo was brought before the inquisition and he was made to, confess that his observations weren’t real. And even that is to a certain extent
Jacob Sager (09:02)
Mike, you just wanna unmute.
Mike Simmons (09:07)
Sorry, I muted for a second and failed to unmute. And so even the powers in the church recognized that these were real things that he was seeing, but they wanted to go slowly with it. They didn’t want to, and I’m not an expert on this, but they didn’t want to just flat out throw everything out there all at once. And so it’s a political thing that happened there.
Jacob Sager (09:08)
No problem.
Mike Simmons (09:37)
But with science, there’s always a problem when there’s something new and revolutionary. There’s always something that threatens the current paradigm and the people who discovered the things that led up to that point not being able to accept that something new was discovered that changes what they did.
It’s just the way that science works. But on the other hand, this is the way humans work. And we tend to stick with what works and what’s familiar. So the whole idea of quantum mechanics and, you know, even Einstein, who had enough trouble with people accepting special relativity and general relativity, didn’t accept quantum mechanics. He said, God doesn’t play dice.
to which Niels Bohr responded, don’t tell God what to do. so making observations, you can make observations and they may be obvious. It’s the interpretation that’s a problem. People will look at it and say, yeah, but it isn’t really what it looks like. It’s really this other thing. It’s just the way things work. And it’s a necessary evil in a sense.
because there have been cases of people getting Nobel prizes for things that turned out to be wrong and other things. Science almost always progresses very slowly, step by step, with a few exceptions, Galileo’s observations being one of them because it changed everything.
Jacob Sager (11:22)
Well, step by step, Mike, how did you come into being somebody who is part of the international astronomy community and a leader in a group participant in many astronomy organizations?
Mike Simmons (11:39)
Well, somehow for some reason to be, despite being an extremely shy child, I didn’t really get involved in much. When I did make observations, maybe it’s because I was always sort of an outsider by my own design. I would look at things and say, but you guys, you’re missing this, know, people going back and forth. always sort of ended up as being the leader in things. My own neurodiversity, I suppose.
And when I got involved in astronomy, it was the same sort of thing. I had ideas about what we should do, very ambitious, always about getting things done. So that was first in the Los Angeles Astronomical Society, where I ended up taking a leadership role. And I just love, I just love making things happen. And as satisfying as it is for somebody to build furniture or a
or these other things, I like making programs happen. I like putting the pieces together and bringing in people and creating a team. And that’s just what I’ve always done. I did other things in terms of organizing locally. And then it was 25 years ago when things switched to international, when I went to a total eclipse, which I had been to a few times and I chase around the world when I can afford to.
And I chose, instead of going to Western Europe or Turkey, like most people did, I went to Iran. And I found a community there, an astronomy community of very young people, exactly the opposite of here in the U .S., mostly women, and very enthusiastic, but isolated.
Jacob Sager (13:25)
wow.
Mike Simmons (13:33)
from the rest of the world in many ways because of the sanctions and unable to get the things that they needed, unable to decide how to do things for themselves. And I spent a lot of time there. I’ve been back many times. They’ve taken a couple of groups there and really helped to boost that community. Not doing anything myself as much as just encouraging people.
And that eventually, that a couple trips to Iraq and some other out of the way places where people were pretty much isolated. That did my forming an organization called astronomers without borders, which I did. I was also because of my international work, I was asked to lead a big project in the international year of astronomy in 2009.
And since then, I’ve just decided that the things I’m going to do are not going to be local anymore, except for we’re going to be limited to Earth because I don’t have contacts with Martians. And I know people who work on Mars remotely, and it’s just a better return. And like I said, I always, I just like to get things done. And if you’re going to go to the effort,
Don’t do it just one time and then move on to something else, but build on it. And if it’s gonna be twice as much work to make it available to everybody in the world, and you get a hundred times more people, that’s a better return on investment. Simple as
Jacob Sager (15:15)
So tell me about Astronomy for Equity.
Mike Simmons (15:20)
Yeah, yeah. So over the years, I have learned that astronomy can be used to improve people’s lives, improve situations in communities, improve situations in society, and that it’s really important that we do this. And there are a lot of reasons why it is valuable. But one of the things I’ve learned from all the international work is that while
doing work for the underserved is fantastic. Underserved people are still somewhat served. The vast majority of people in the world are what I call unserved. They have nothing, they will never hear about anything, they don’t have any opportunities. University students who are in astronomy or physics but will never have a chance to use a telescope or do some research. People in remote locations who don’t.
have any opportunity to learn science in schools because the educational system doesn’t do it. Girls in many countries around the world, most probably, who don’t believe that they can go into science. And astronomy is one thing that is truly universal. have food is universal, music is universal,
Geology is universal, but they’re different in each place. The sky is the same, know, different north and south, but we share the same sky. And if you go into most schools around the world, which would not be in the cities, it’d be rural locations, all kinds of places that are really pretty remote and isolated, they won’t have a chemistry lab or a biology lab or a physics lab or anything else, but they have an astronomy
And that’s overhead. And ironically, those people are in remote locations, have a better astronomy lab than those of us who are in cities with all the whites. And astronomy connects with every single STEM field, science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and STEAM, if you include art. There’s a connection to everything.
Jacob Sager (17:24)
Mm -hmm.
Absolutely.
Mike Simmons (17:41)
And everybody’s fascinated by it. It’s actually the ideal thing. And there should be more of it in the Western countries as well, if you want to encourage people into any of these fields. And I’ve worked with astronomy clubs at the University of Benghazi in Libya. None of them are astronomy majors, but I got them on a remote observing program where they could do real science for the first
Things like that. So astronomy is used around the world to improve the lives of people who otherwise have no opportunities. And this is about equity. It’s not equality. Equality means giving everybody the same thing. Equity means giving everybody the same opportunity. And that’s what’s missing. I meet people I call diamonds in the rough. Brilliant people in places.
where they don’t have a chance to be polished. That very few get into a university or leave their country, which they have to do, to get the education that allows them to shine. And you know, these people there, you don’t know, as one supporter said, you don’t know where the next Stephen Hawking is going to be
So that’s the idea.
Jacob Sager (19:05)
And you. So part of how we’ve we’ve connected recently is a strong astronomy for equity is you’re doing a show called Through the Telescope, Big Impact Astronomy, and it is various stories of the people in your network, your friends, the people you’ve helped, the people who have helped you to tell us a bit about some of the places
you’ll be going in those stories or in those conversations in that
Mike Simmons (19:41)
Well, yeah, big impact astronomy is, it sort of says it all. People are having a big impact in their community. Some of the people, example, Yumna, young woman in Lahore, Pakistan, who goes to schools and has created a team that works with her and encourages students to get into STEM fields. And it’s largely
women and when you see the pictures of the girls standing around her looking at her like she is the queen because she’s a role model that they otherwise would never ever have. Oleinka Fagmamero is somebody I’ve worked with for a long time in Abuja, Nigeria. She created an organization, she contacted me first and I’ve supported her all along.
Gotten her some telescopes. They do the same thing having STEM camps for girls who don’t even realize they can go into astronomy. And we think in the U .S. and Canada and Western Europe, you can go into whatever you want to. You might hit some headwinds in some areas. That’s not always true. Most of the people that are being served by the people I’m talking
don’t see any future. They just don’t see anything available. There are no role models. They don’t see a path. They learn about everything that’s available to other people on the internet. So just encouraging them, and I’ve seen this work and change people’s lives over and over and over again. And it also changes the situation in their community and in their country because people will often say,
got a comment once on Facebook when I was raising money for a program in Tanzania. And he said, and it’s not, it’s understandable why he’d say it, because he didn’t get the idea, which is, I think they need food more than they need telescopes. What they need is engineers and scientists and the people who can make these things happen. So we don’t have to give them food or they have to go
So astronomy for a better world is a really important thing. There are others, these are heroes of mine. you know, I do my best to encourage them and they’re inspired, but they inspire me. They’re the reason that I do this. And there are, so Tanzania is another place. South Africa, there are people.
in many countries in Africa, Algeria, where I have been, Ethiopia is using astronomy in a big way and I’ve been there. Most of the places I haven’t been to yet, but there’s just one story after another after another and many of them are Westerners who have taken on the task of the mission of doing this themselves.
improving, creating programs that they can create to improve the lives of other people. And so I’m doing what I can to encourage and to support those who are on the ground. You know, those amateur astronomers I talked about? Well, they’re the frontline troops. They’re making a difference, but they are doing it on their own, with their own money, without support. They’re all frustrated and none of them give
So a little bit goes a very long way. And I’ve talked to people who I’ve encouraged and a small percentage go on to do great things just because somebody says, yeah, you can do
Jacob Sager (23:33)
That’s awesome.
When you spoke of the community in Iran, but also some other places, you described that the community or its emerging leadership tends to be young, which is not like it is in this country, is what you said. I’m curious, how often are you seeing that or how widespread is that particular phenomena and what factors are going into it? And is
Is it changing there or here anymore?
Mike Simmons (24:20)
Yeah, that’s a good question because we’re, ironically, I find that we Americans are the ones that are really isolated. You know, we have everything, but we don’t need anything from anybody else. So while every place I go, they’re asking me about the latest political race and various things, but people in the U S don’t know anything about their country because there isn’t a real reason they need to, but we affect everybody else. And
So we tend to live a little bit in an information bubble about the rest of the world and see the world as being looking similar to what we have, even though we know it’s not. And so in the United States, amateur astronomy took off many decades ago, really going to the Los Angeles Astronomical Society that I led for a while, my local club.
They started in the 1920s and astronomy was a big thing here during the space age when we started launching rockets and going to the moon got real big. Well, it’s in the sixties and seventies. So those of us who got into it back then, we’re old. We’re mostly male. We’re mostly white. And, and for the radio listeners, I am an old white male.
And so, and people here always wonder, where are the young people? You know, where are the women and this has improved immensely. There are many more women and minorities involved now and it’s improving. But when I went to Iran, I was just stunned. It’s almost all young women. They don’t have the history of amateur science like we do here. They’re starting from scratch.
And it is the latest generation that’s doing that. And I was 25 years ago, some of those are a little bit, you know, they’re middle -aged. But now when you say the leadership, now the leadership of the astronomy community, true. In Iran, the leadership of the country is absolutely ancient. It’s a big problem. And that’s been a topic here recently as well. And, but the leaders are young, enthusiastic people.
Jacob Sager (26:36)
Mm -hmm.
Mike Simmons (26:48)
And I do see that in most places around the world that they’re just just like they’re getting on the internet for the first time on their phones because they never had computers. You know, it’s a generational thing. So now all of a sudden these young people are discovering science and astronomy and they’re they’re involved with it and they’re less inclined to be just male as a result as the younger generations
Everybody’s active. Everybody’s a part of it. As to why Iran is mostly women is something that I’ve really never figured out. And I think it may have something to do with the political and cultural situation there because women are really
fewer opportunities in astronomy is something that seems to be accepted everywhere. I’ve been to very rural areas and towns where there are, you know, there’s astronomy going on, even though there’s really nothing else. I’m a small town of 10 ,000 people or something. And the parents seem to be approving
I don’t
Jacob Sager (28:08)
How do you think, or let me ask you, somebody who’s living through both of the space ages, the original space age and kind of space age reboot that’s happening right now, how does that change the world of astronomy?
Mike Simmons (28:27)
Well, that’s an interesting question as well. And I don’t know if it really does, certainly not in this country, because we see astronomy and space exploration as two different things. They’re obviously connected. In most of the world where they don’t have a space industry, they may have a space agency, it’s put up a satellite or two for communications, but they don’t have this history.
of space exploration and they see astronomy and space as the same thing as just as we did long time ago. So what we’re seeing now in the United States, it seems to me is really technological. is certainly exploration and so on. I think astronomy and space go together. I mean, you know, we’re making a big deal out of the fact that humans may go back to the moon before too long.
But people telescopes go there all the time and to Mars and beyond and beyond and beyond. So we’re exploring as well. So I don’t, I haven’t seen a real impact in that respect. I don’t think people make the connection. Maybe true in other countries where they see what’s going on and want to get involved in some way. But I’m not sure it has
Jacob Sager (29:50)
As someone who’s been in outreach for 50 years, what do you think the next 50 years of shifts in the communities, the astronomy communities, but also just the international community of people who are trying to make a smarter and more self -fulfilled and self -fulfilling
Mike Simmons (30:18)
Well, first of all, I don’t like making predictions because everybody does is always wrong. Like Yogi Berra said, know, it’s hard to make predictions, especially about the future. And so, but I do think that the increase in interest outside of our planet
Jacob Sager (30:27)
huh, of course.
Mike Simmons (30:45)
the need for people to reconnect more with nature and understand that we’re living on one planet with climate change and other problems in a truly global society that spans the world. It’s even more important now that we recognize that we’re all passengers on spaceship Earth, like Mr. Fuller
And then what we do connects with what everybody else does. We can’t hide from it anymore. We can’t really be isolated. It’s just not possible. And it’s not necessarily a good thing. We need a global society to some extent. And I think looking outwards in many ways is
You know, we learn from one of the people, we just put a clip together, didn’t we, from the big impact astronomy of somebody who is talking about astronomy as the overview effect. And that’s the way I’ve talked about it in a long time. The overview effect is when astronauts go into space and they look back at earth. And this is not looking down from a big height. This is not looking over at earth. This is seeing earth as a planet in space.
with stars around it right down to the edge as we see other planets. And they go through a paradigm shift. They just never see the earth the same way anymore after that. Well, we’ve had 600 or so people that have made it into space, but for the rest of us, we can do something like that by looking up because we see our galaxy. We can see as we rotate on
on our spacecraft and look out different windows that we’re all looking out from the same place, seeing the same thing. We see our place in the solar system, in the galaxy, in the universe, when we do this. And that’s something that’s not as easy to internalize that message, but it happens naturally eventually. And it’s something that changes quite a bit for all of those people who look through a telescope for the first
and have been traveling on this spacecraft but never looked out the window before. It’s a shock. It’s a big thing. I can’t say I predict, but I believe it is important that we get more of that view, that perspective. And I do think we will because I don’t think there’s any alternative. I don’t think it’s
Jacob Sager (33:38)
Okay.
Mike Simmons (33:44)
So I would say in the future, yeah, there should be more of that. Maybe it’s just because I don’t want to think about the apocalyptic future of science fiction movies where the entire planet is shrouded in one big cloud of pollution and you can’t see the sky and all of that.
Jacob Sager (34:05)
Well, since you talked about the overview effect, I’m wondering, are there any other philosophies or books or even science fiction that you recommend to people who are interested in astronomy or just the kind of space -based positive futurism that the overview effect stands
Mike Simmons (34:31)
Weather book, Overview Effect is a good one. There some other books written by astronauts like Nicole Stott and Ron Garan that are good as far as that goes. The one person I keep coming back to is Carl Sagan. Now, Carl Sagan was a contemporary and at the time when I was younger he did Cosmos and all those things. I wasn’t necessarily a fan at the time.
Jacob Sager (34:47)
Mm -hmm.
Mike Simmons (35:00)
But I’m not sure why, because I can tell you that I meet people around the world who were born long after Carl Sagan died and are still inspired by him. And so I really can’t think of a better person from that perspective than Carl Sagan. His books, videos, other things he’s done, he really was a visionary.
Now as far as astronomy itself, there are so many ways in which you can get into astronomy. I think one of the really good things right now is if you just want to look up, get an app on your phone that tells you what the different stars and constellations are, and it’ll point out to you which ones are planets. You can watch the planets. You can watch them as they move. You can see the working of the celestial clock there, not just the earth spinning
Jacob Sager (35:52)
Mm
Mike Simmons (35:58)
but you can watch the constellations slip by as we go around the sun. You can watch the planets as they move in their orbits. The ones that are closer to the sun whiz by us on the inside track and the ones farther out are going more slowly and we pass by them. You know, that’s a long -term thing and I think it’s fascinating and it really does give you like a three -dimensional sense of the solar system.
But learning what the different stars are, constellations are made up things, but they’re useful as landmarks. But there are quite a few things that you can see in a pair of binoculars. The moons of Jupiter, the other galaxies take your app out into a dark place. And there are a lot of things that you can do. You don’t need to buy a telescope ride.
Jacob Sager (36:32)
Mm -hmm.
I’ve had the pleasure of, I want to say it’s the night sky up on the iPhone, pulling that out with my children in the front yard when it’s just after dark, but we live in town and so the amount of things we see in the sky is kind of limited. And pointing it up there and just getting a name, that’s whatever it is, it’s Saturn, that’s a star, it’s huge. It changes everything for
I know you’re a guy who is a patriarch in a multi -generational family. You’ve got children and grandchildren and great grandchildren. We live at an interesting time right now in that because of a lot of health technology, which is like a lot of generations are alive at the same time. And as somebody who’s been working in astronomy since before
people were writing emails, I guess, about things and just had to make phone calls or show up or write letters. I don’t know, how much does astronomy change with the generations? How much is it staying the
Mike Simmons (38:13)
Well, think everything’s changed and very, very fast. Second half of the 20th century. I used to ask my grandmother was born in 1892 about things, you know, back at the beginning of the 20th century and, and, uh, big things that happened then, like, you know, did you hear about the Wright brothers flight? And she said, Oh yeah, we heard about it, but nobody believed it, you know, and it would have taken a long time until they got confirmation that this was really happening.
Things happen very fast now, we’re interconnected, we know about much more. And I don’t think, there are huge changes in astronomy, I don’t think they’re any different than what’s happened in other fields. The expectations are completely different. And we are really, as far as astronomy right now, we are living in a golden age. I mean, people always say, well, the good old days.
for the most part, the good old days were not very good compared to now. I don’t know why people say that. And, you know, there are disadvantages that come along with the advantages of newer stuff. And there’s plenty of discussion about that. But we are, we
Jacob Sager (39:15)
Mm -hmm.
Mike Simmons (39:37)
in a time when we have technology that’s allowing us to build bigger telescopes, put them in space, build incredibly powerful instruments, which is as much of the revolution as the new telescopes, if not more so, compared to using photographic plates that we were using, you know, not that long ago.
And so I don’t, you know, when you’re living within it, you don’t think there’s anything different about the time you’re there. I remember in the sixties telling my parents who were born in 1919 and 1920 lived through the depression and world war two that I didn’t think the sixties were any different than any other decade. And looking back, I can see why he said, no, this is totally different than it was.
But this time now in astronomy is really different. It just is. It’s the rate at which the advances are being made through new technology and the application of physics that we’ve known about for a long time but had no way to take advantage of is just astonishing.
Jacob Sager (41:03)
So there’s also big plans for big impact astronomy to release it soon as a show and then over time to grow it into astronomy tourism. Is that correct? Can you tell me more about
Mike Simmons (41:19)
Yeah, yeah. Well, this is something I’ve been planning to do for quite some time and I’ve done a little bit of it. When I go to a lot of these places, people in the community say, I want to go with you next time. You know, not everybody once chooses Iran or Iraq as their vacation destination and many of these other places. And I’ve always been an independent sort of traveler. But the main thing is when I go to these places, I’m going there with
purpose and I am being hosted by the people that have invited me there many times. Well, quite often being invited there and you know, as a paid guest because I can help them with something once in a while otherwise. But what I want to do is all these people that I’m interviewing them, that I’m interviewing on Big Impact Astronomy, they need support.
they need awareness about what it is they’re doing. And we don’t have a cohesive community between all the people doing all of these things on a local basis. You know, there’s connection between the people that are doing big programs. And so the idea was that I’m going to take a small group and it’s going to be a small group, know, something manageable. This is not a couple of buses going from museum to museum.
But we may visit an educational observatory in Northern Tanzania that’s on the edge of a game park. So they have to watch out for elephants walking through during the night, which is not something I’ve ever had to deal with in astronomy before. But also there’s a safari opportunity and everything else. When I travel, I don’t spend much time in the cities, unless I’m at a conference, in which case I’m in the city and that’s it.
Jacob Sager (43:04)
Okay.
Mike Simmons (43:18)
And so the idea is cultural immersion. I love the cultures. I love getting to know the people. I like to stay in places where people don’t speak English because it’s just a regular neighborhood. And so we will be taking people to there, maybe to Lahore, Pakistan, and go out to these places. One of the first places I’m planning on going is another group that’s doing amazing things in Guadalajara, Mexico.
Jacob Sager (43:34)
Yeah.
Mike Simmons (43:48)
and they are going to rural villages and bringing astronomy. They are doing astronomy at the zoo. One of the leaders is professionally a clown and he does programs for the kids. A lot of really innovative stuff. so, mean, Guadalajara is a medium -sized city, but we’ll spend a lot of time going out to other places. So it’s a way
Let people see directly. You know, it’s a follow -on to the interviews that we’re doing online. It’s a cultural experience more than anything else. And people will be able to see what’s actually going on and come back and hopefully be, some of them, be evangelists for this kind of work and what the people in those places are doing.
Jacob Sager (44:30)
you
Well, that’s awesome. Looking forward to watching that emerge and being part of that.
think that’s all my questions. I have a good strong ending point question here. let me ask you this, Mike. This is actually a question I ask everybody and I want to make sure I ask you this. If you were to go to space, what would you bring with
Mike Simmons (44:59)
All
What’d I bring with me? Wow, you mean other
Jacob Sager (45:15)
Yeah, personal item other than the life supply.
Mike Simmons (45:20)
Yeah, right. Other than a completely open mind and imagination and curiosity.
I’ve never thought about that before. I can’t think for sure of what I would do. I know that if I had the opportunity to do that, I would be taking advantage of it to do good things for the rest of the people that don’t have that opportunity. know, when I have a key to a door that other people want to see behind, I always open the door. And so I don’t know if I could do something that would advance.
causes for people here on Earth, but I’ve never even considered that. So, yeah, I don’t know. And I don’t know what other people have taken with them that had some value to them either.
Jacob Sager (46:12)
It’s all been different answers. You know, you’re really quick to say other than an open mind. And that was nobody has even brought that up in their in their stirrings or responses. Other people like, for instance, when I was here, I also spoke about bringing things on behalf of other people or for the for the benefit of so much more than just yourself. I hear that. Absolutely.
Mike Simmons (46:23)
see that’s the thing when I go someplace.
Yeah. Well, you know, going to space, I mean, if I had a chance, for example, if I was on a suborbital flight, I probably wouldn’t unbuckle and get out of the seat. And I wouldn’t be throwing &Ms around the cabin because you can do that on a zero G flight, you know, I just want to experience it. It’s the same as when I traveled to other places.
Jacob Sager (46:39)
Awesome.
Mike Simmons (47:03)
I don’t know if I suppose it wouldn’t be any different. It’d just be a more extreme difference from what I used to, but I go to the most extreme things that I can. You know, I did one program, an episode that will be airing on big impact astronomy with a student leader of an organization doing astronomy in Ukraine. And I got them some telescopes that they requested, which gives them just a mental
to explore the universe for a short time and it’s very important thing. I plan on going there to visit them because it’ll give them a boost. That’s not gonna be a tour. I will have some people going with me, but I’m not taking responsibility for other people in the war zone. So just, I think just, you know what I’d be thinking about with just being, would be being open to the experience of
what it’s always all about and trying to absorb and record as much as possible on my rapidly diminishing organic memory banks in my head.
Jacob Sager (48:16)
Well, thanks so much, Mike. I appreciate you for coming on the show today. This was a really great conversation. And I wish the best of luck to you in your travels and on your shows. Distribution.
Mike Simmons (48:28)
Thank you very much, Jacob. Thanks for your help and thanks for inviting me. It’s been a great conversation. Anytime somebody asks me a question that I’m stumped on, I know that’s a good conversation.
Jacob Sager (48:39)
Yeah
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