Join us on this special episode of “Space Midrash” as host Jacob Sager welcomes a distinguished panel featuring Yifat Feffer, Dr. Kathy Laurini, Professor Dan Blumberg, and Yigal Harel. This engaging discussion delves into the innovative world of WeSpace Technologies and their pioneering lunar hoppers, the evolving landscape of the space economy, and the intersection of art and space exploration. Discover the insights on the future of lunar missions, the potential of cislunar economies, and the philosophical and ethical implications of space exploration. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that bridges science, technology, and human ingenuity in the quest to explore and utilize space.
Summary
Guests:
Yifat Feffer and Yigal Harel from WeSpace.
Dan Blumberg, Chairman Israel Space Agency
Dr. Kathy Laurini, Human Space Exploration Strategy at Dynetics
In this episode of Space Midrash, the guests discuss their involvement in the space industry and the challenges and opportunities in the new space economy. They talk about the intersection of art and space technology, the evolution of lunar missions with technology, and the changing relationship between academia, industry, and startups in the space industry. The guests also emphasize the importance of thinking differently and taking smart risks in order to drive innovation and progress in space exploration. The conversation explores the shape of the lunar economy and the potential impact of space exploration on international relationships. The guests discuss the various aspects of the lunar economy, including resource exploration, communication, and collaboration. They also touch on the Jewish ethical perspective on space exploration and the importance of environmental protection. The conversation concludes with a discussion on inspiring moments in space exploration and what the guests would bring with them to space.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Introductions
03:05 The Changing Landscape of the Space Industry
09:03 The Evolution of Lunar Missions with Technology
13:06 The Intersection of Art and Space Technology
21:31 Focusing on Results and Impact in Space Missions
31:13 Exploring the Shape of the Lunar Economy
34:28 The Jewish Ethical Perspective on Space Exploration
38:14 Space Exploration as an Opportunity for International Collaboration
49:43 Inspiring Moments in Space Exploration
52:23 Personal Items to Bring to Space
Transcript
weSpace
[00:00:00] Jacob Sager: So we’re here on Space Midrash today, we have a special episode where We are gathered with quite, quite the audience today, or quite the group here. We’re gathered with Yifat Feffer Dr. Kathy Larini, Professor Dan Blumberg, pardon me. And Yigal Haral. That’s great. Let’s just quickly, if you, could we go around and just introduce each other and just, tell our audience who you are and how you got into space and where you find yourself in the landscape of the space industries and communities. Let’s start with Yifat.
[00:00:37] Yifat: Okay. Thank you so much for having us. It’s a great opportunity. And I so thankful for the other participants, Professor Dan and dear Dr. Kathy. I think those both are unicorns. They push so hard, so beautifully, the The space dream that we all struggle to make it as a reality. Soon in our days, as we say. Me and Igal are the co founders of WeSpace Technologies LTD which was founded almost five years ago with the aim of showing actually how you can make money from the engineering activities on the moon and to bring those two together.
And push this lunar economy better than it is when we started. So what we do is actually we manufacture hoppers. Lunar hoppers, like the drones on Earth, but we were not We are delivering pizza soon, but rather more retrieving for information and data as well as deploying equipment, et cetera.
And we’ll speak about it later. So I’ll shrink my words and make it shorter. Otherwise it would be a monologue. So I’m coming from the. I’m a lawyer, my professional. I quit pretty soon after I graduated. I established my other private company called Joy Art Gallery, which is a smart translation methodology.
to take graphic designs and make them three dimensional metal art. In WeSpace I deal with the general management and the business models. And I will now let Igor take the lead.
[00:02:29] Yigal: Okay, I’m a, I’m an aerospace engineer, a graduate from the Technion here in Israel. I spent 21 years at the defense companies here in Israel managing development.
Of of systems for, mainly for the Air Force, and after this, I joined SpaceIL, which was a non for profit organization, which runs the Bereshit program. I spreaded the entire program, working with IAI, Israeli Aerospace Industries and SpaceX and all the subcontractors that, uh, support us in bringing the first Israeli lunar lander to the moon.
We succeed to capture by the moon. But landing was not so it’s not so easy to land on the moon as we saw after it, but still we are very proud from what we did. And and after it with the fact I established WeSpace to go back to the moon and to explore it and to find waters and other minerals and do the good things.
[00:03:43] Jacob Sager: Thank you, Yigal. Dr. Larini.
[00:03:47] Kathy: Yeah. So my name is Kathy Larini. I am an engineer as well. I worked for NASA for about 35 years, retired about five years ago. And now I work for a company called Leidos in their Dynetics Division. So Leidos is a big aerospace and other services company, about 46, 000 employees.
My NASA career was always spent in human spaceflight space shuttle program, space station program, and various engineering and program management roles. The last 10 years of my career, though, were spent in a more of a strategic planning role, helping prepare NASA’s plan to go back to the Moon. And onto Mars and it’s exciting for me because, I was nine when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the moon.
And that’s one of the reasons why I pursued a space career and have loved every minute of it. And all the contributions I’ve been able to make. So helping plan this next journey that NASA now is implementing as the moon to Mars initiative is something I’m extremely proud about. And with Leidos, I do various things, including serving as a teammate to WeSpace in realizing this family of hoppers.
[00:05:00] Jacob Sager: Thank you very much. Dr. Bloomberg. Professor Bloomberg.
[00:05:04] Dan: First of all, thank you for inviting me here. I want to, congratulate you on having a podcast on space issues, space and philosophy. If you look at any mythology, space is a big part of all mythologies and all philosophies. By the way, including the Jewish one.
I’m at the moment, I’m I’m a professor at Ben Gurion University of the Negev in Beersheba, Israel. I I’m a vice president at the university and I’m chairman of the Israel Space Agency. So my first of all, I figured out from what Kathy just said that we’re the same age because I experienced Neil Armstrong at the exact same age.
Figure that one out. That wasn’t very difficult to get, but later on in my, in my adulthood, I won’t go into the entire story, but I was studying the interaction between climate and geology and the person that ended up being my Ph. D. advisor. decided to come and visit in Israel and interview me for a PhD position.
Professor Ronald Greeley from Arizona State University. He was one of the people that trained the original lunar astronauts. early on in his career. And he offered me to come and work on a radar mission, actually, on the space shuttle. Had nothing to do with the rest of the planet. So I used to joke and say at least I know that Earth is one of the planets and we live in space here even on Earth.
And I was studying the use of space borne radar to understand windblown processes. Initially on Earth, and then also on Venus and Mars, and got more and more into remote sensing, using this data to understand long term processes. Understand the comparison between Earth and other planets. And here I am still working on space issues, heading the Israel Space Agency, and I want to say a word over there on the space agency.
Israel was the eighth nation in the world to reach space, full capabilities in space, back in 1988. So I think that, we’re doing a lot of things in that area here in space. And we’ll probably talk about some of them as we move along.
[00:07:30] Jacob Sager: Yes. So Dr. Blumberg, I have a question for you specifically, which is having studied at Arizona State University and being a leader and administrator and professor at Ben Gurion University.
And also studying other planets and their weather patterns. I’m curious, Arizona, Phoenix, that whole area is an inhospitable environment that in the last 200 years has been changed in hell on earth, huge hell on earth, huge metroplexes very similar to Be’er Sheva and to the Negev has transformed.
So I’m curious what your thoughts are about. How possibly those communities, both in how they’re directly related academically to studying and supporting space and planetary science, but possibly the human settlements that are there that have grown in the last 200 years from really nothing how that might be related to the human pursuit
[00:08:26] Dan: in space.
So in many ways, I could answer this question. One question would be why actually space sciences has developed at ASU, at BGU, and there are a few other places that I could mention. I think that the first thing that comes to mind is that we live in deserts here. If you look at Mars, Mars is a huge desert.
Mars has windblown processes, has dunes. You look at Venus. Venus is not only a desert, but it’s a hot desert, a very hot desert, and there are a lot of analogies. Between these environments and understanding what happens on those planets will actually help us better understand what happens on us and what might happen as climate changes as climate gets warmer.
So I think that there’s certain similarities and being able to do field work in your backyard. Is one of the things that actually pushes space sciences forward at BGU and at ASU. And a few other places that I could mention easily.
[00:09:41] Kathy: That’s one of the reasons why working in space is is particularly rewarding, I think, is because the challenges that you have to overcome to send people beyond Earth into space, they have to be able to survive in extreme environments.
So the technology investments, things like water processing, include loop life support systems, high temperature materials and mechanisms. You’re going to See those kinds of investments. We already are. NASA is already spinning off a lot of those technologies. But you’ll see them more important as the, as environment, extreme environments become, more populated.
And the environments become more extreme.
[00:10:20] Dan: I think that if I’ve gone from what Kathy just added, if you look at Michigan, Rayco, Michigan has been studied using remote sensing A hell of a lot, mainly agriculture. That’s not the environment you’re going to find on the moon, or on Mars, or on Venus.
But if you look at the Algodonis dunes in Southern California, or the Mojave Desert, there are a lot of similarities between the Mojave Desert and what on Mars. If you look at the volcanic fields. In the Mojave, there are a lot of similarities. Go up to Idaho, you’ll see craters of the moon have a lot of similarities to the lunar surface.
And those are challenges you want to deal with. And as Kathy said, the technology is what enabled the population to grow in Phoenix or in Beersheba. If you think of Phoenix without air conditioning, boy, you don’t want to be living there. But AC changed it
[00:11:19] Jacob Sager: all. It’s a good business to be in out there.
I have a question for Dr. Lurini about business and your career in leadership and strategic planning and your career in a big established company working with a newer business, like WeSpace. My question is in the new space economy, which can be a buzzword that a lot of people throw out a lot and some people avoid, but in the new space economy, What is, how has the relationship shifted between academic industry the bigger aerospace partners, the smaller startups are innovative teams as well as I know defense plays a part in all of that as well.
And I’m curious from your perspective, how that’s, how that shifted and what is exciting now at the space you get to stand at.
[00:12:10] Kathy: Yeah there have been a lot of changes, I would say, in the last 15 years, and they’re all, from my perspective, really good. The pendulum has swung really from a phase when governments funded everything, set all the requirements, managed all the risk, and to a point where new space, if you will or startup companies are coming with their own new ideas and new ideas.
About how to do things better and more efficiently and cheaper. And and so what, the merging of the cultures, let’s say one of not willing to take much risk, which costs a lot of money to with the cultures that are, embrace the risk and, can rapidly tests. To solutions or mitigate risk mitigations, they, companies like WeSpace have have closer connections, oftentimes have closer connections to academia, right?
They can leverage a lot of different solutions that are being thought of now by, by the younger folks looking way to the future. It has been a big change. I think, what, from my perspective, having grown up in a. In the world where things were done very without wanting to take much risk and therefore very expensive, I, I worked on programs that lasted an awfully long time.
Eagle talked about bear sheet. I think, from the time they really started with detailed design until the time they landed on the moon was probably just a handful of years compared to what it took to realize the space station, which I worked on the development of that for 20 years.
So if we want to keep moving forward, we have to adopt these new ways of doing things. We have to be willing to take more risks, but we have to be able to take smart risks. We have to understand the risk that we’re taking. I think, and that’s where I think the cultures working together can help each other.
There’s a lot. I see a lot of new space companies that, they embrace the risk or take the risk, but they don’t really understand how much risk they are taking. And I think, you’ve seen some of these lunar landers over the last several years that have had issues, there are.
They either in some cases, they didn’t understand how big of a challenge a certain thing was, or how much risk a certain choice of a part certain, lower quality part would bring and as a result, you know what happened. And so there’s a benefit of merging the two cultures that definitely I think as we go forward will it’s one of the reasons why there’s so much new investment in space now to so much new activity in space so much.
So many things that are happening, right? Because a lot of knowledge has been gained, but a lot of new ideas and. And creative solutions are being brought to the table. Who would have thought of 3D printing a rocket? Things are, things that are happening now are really exciting.
It’s all good.
[00:14:57] Dan: I think that if also look at what it took to put something in space years ago was a fortune. Only governments had that kind of funding. And there was no reason for a private company, a private enterprise to do that unless it was paid by a government. And what’s happened in the past few years is that we see all the opportunities that are there and the huge opportunities.
You think of the GPS that was developed for military uses, not for us to use Waze and Google Maps. That suddenly showed how you can use it in your daily life. All our watches now use clocks that are on the GPS satellites. Communications are now being done by private companies. Just look at Starlink, at what the opportunity is over there.
I think there are a lot of opportunities out there.
[00:15:50] Kathy: And WeSpace, when we talk about When they came to us first I’m sorry, one last thing. When WeSpace came to us with this idea of a lunar hopper, we could immediately envision some applications for it, but they had many more ideas than we had even thought about, and that’s just an example of, when you’re motivated, when you have different motivations a lot of innovation happens.
[00:16:11] Dan: And by the way, think of the challenges that you asked about earlier. WeSpace. are going to the most hostile environment for a hopper, solving the challenge of moving on the moon. It’ll be much easier for them in the future to do that on Earth.
[00:16:29] Jacob Sager: So that brings me to my next question, which is for EGAL.
We talk about how the industry changes or how the technology emerges and changes and these different generations of space flight or these just new opportunities and markets, how have the challenges of lunar missions evolved with technology and are they becoming easier or more routine?
[00:16:53] Yigal: Look I think that the technologies that is developing development to space orbiting Earth. Is so mature now, so we can use most of the subsystems that is, has a high TRL, TRL9 and use it on the moon as well with some adaptation because the temperature is different. But but most of the system can be used well.
[00:17:26] Jacob Sager: TR nine, that’s technology readiness.
[00:17:29] Yigal: Yeah, it’s the highest technology. It’s actually been tested, been in, in service, actually. It’s the highest level of readiness. And this is give us a lot of power because it’s reduced the risk and reduce the cost and reduce the timetable.
So technology has been all the time been improved and very quickly. And due to the fact that the access to orbiting the moon is so easy now, thanks to mainly to SpaceX. Uh, the development is very weak and and promising.
[00:18:13] Jacob Sager: My next question is for Yifat, which is you say you also have an art gallery where you take graphic designs and represent them in a three dimensional plane, which I think is very interesting. I’ve seen some of your metal art before. I’m curious, what’s the intersection of art and space technology? Is there any relationship there to creating things out of metal and creating robots?
[00:18:38] Yifat: It’s a good question, and you’re the first one to ask. That’s what I liked in those questions you sent us just to get into your mood will probably take much more than just one or two podcasts, but I’ll try to make it shorter. It’s the same question I asked myself when I quit the law the law firm I worked in and started my own first business as an entrepreneur I asked, do I need a a previous knowledge in order to do it right.
And what I learned also in space, especially in space, that the most important thing is to come open minded. You need to come very simple, open minded, no, not restricted to any previous all kinds of restrictions. I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you one example. When we started this space opportunity, which was shortly after the launch of Bereshit 1, me and Igal we were couples then.
We were partners in life too. So it was layers by layers of struggles. Chapter two for both of us, each one brought his kids. We had seven together and we had this dream to make something New, innovative, that will also keep on going the Israeli legacy in space after Bereshit. So we we kept on thinking what, what is most needed.
And as I also asked the NASA guys. Guys, how come we haven’t seen hoppers till now? And they said, one guy said to me this, Look human beings, when they confront struggle a problem, they tend to go to the near place where they have their working tools. Go to the basement, you look what you got there, and if you can use them and leverage them.
And so we got to those rovers. And so we got to those rovers. You’ve got a lot of money there in the automotive industry. You’ve got a lot of know how. And we have been thinking about a rover, but this was done by going through the, some kind of a maintenance. It was not very innovative. So we started with a rover and When we came to the hoppers and the main struggle of the moon, which is lack of information, lack of data, when we reached with the, with that rover to the first pit, you reach a pit and then you say, okay, what do I do now with this rover?
Do I throw it down there? But what if it’s blocked? Since then, I started to realize that you mustn’t go with the model of Me Too. You need to understand the problems much deeper and not be afraid of asking questions and thinking different than the others, like I did in the art business as well. I brought machineries.
I brought a lot of technology into that process. So one day I remember meaning of and asking what the hell do we need to go down on wheels and struggle with that regolite and being worried what if the regolite touches the lenses and what about those sharp rocks? How can we move on this terrain?
And then we ask, why should we anyhow? Why cannot we, like a bird, look at it from far? Upper than. On the wheels and collect information, collect the data and have some kind of a lunar Google, a Google map of the moon. So we started thinking like the others. Struggling and understanding that the first need of the moon is not that vehicle, but the information and the data.
And then reaching the conclusion that the first vehicle to be deployed off the lander should be a hopper. It will scan all the places. Go down to Pits. tubes, craters, and when we have this information, then we can tell the other guys, Come, go here. Don’t go there. It’s very valuable information. So this way of, um, way, that, that way that we did was showing that, first of all, don’t be frightened to think differently.
As I did with the art, as we do with the space, we have a lot of troubles When you think differently, for instance, when you show your deck, your presentation to investors, you sometimes need to speak differently. I’ll give you an instance.
Most of the companies that develop vehicles to the moon are talking about the lengths of the duration of the mission. The energy the power to, to ignite and work with the vehicles is one of the main factors. What would you do when you’re out of fuel? It took you so much money and time to reach the moon.
What do you do now? So everybody Tries to show that the rover is a perfect solution because it works endlessly theoretically, because it’s, it goes by the solar panels, and there is so much sun there. But when we speak about the hopper, our mission duration is much shorter, because we bring our fuel from Earth, we bring our rocket propellant, and for 70 kilogram weight mass of a hopper, we can only scan for 20 minutes.
But then in a certain minute, you understand that it’s not the mission duration. It’s the area coverage. It’s what you succeed doing in this duration. If a rover conducts 0. 0 square kilometers for those 15 minutes, Our hopper can do 17 square kilometers. So you change the language and you start to speak differently.
It’s not, and you tell the guys, and you need to be very, polite. And it’s not the mission duration. It’s what you retrieve during that time. You bring new ideas, it’s a new vehicle, it’s a new story, but we think this is the most important thing that the Moon, the lunar economy needs. Bring the map, look what happens how difficult it is to land, how difficult it is to deploy your Indian rover and realize after a few meters that there’s something that stops you from continuing and then you have to go all the way back.
The right order should be hoppers collecting data, selling that data to everyone, showing the rovers where to go, and saving a lot of money and time.
[00:26:28] Jacob Sager: Let me expand this to the question for the group, which is, so you talk about the hoppers being this part of the lunar economy of selling the information, the mapping to I’m guessing to other companies that want to be on the moon and putting their crafts there what is the shape of the lunar economy that’s going to be taking place. It. It seems from somebody who I recently got turned back on to the space economy once honestly, once virgin galactic and blue origin started sending up those small passengers and that it turned me back onto the fact that we had 600 people in space previously, but sometime soon we’ll be sending 600 people a year into space.
And then as I continue to learn about companies like yours is that a lot of industry and a lot of nations are very interested in the moon right now. And some of the terms that have come up and that I’ve learned about is that we have not just the moon, but we have the whole cislunar economy, the way that space or earth space and the moon space will work for human endeavors beyond that sphere.
So I’m curious, what’s the shape that the lunar economy beyond just information as a service from one technology provider to another. Which shape is that going to be taking place and what’s the timeframe on how that takes place?
[00:27:49] Dan: I think that we need to think of the moon in a few ways and one of the most important ones is as a resource.
Both a resource for exploration, so a lot of, there’s a lot of talk now of building a base on the moon to go from there to Mars. But the other issue is a resource for bringing back minerals to Earth. A third area could be for communication on Earth. It’s a base where you could place additional instruments. And I’m sure there are a lot of elements of the economy that we cannot even imagine at the moment, but it’s getting a little easier to get a little easier to get to the moon, and there’s more discussion of doing collaboration and building things on the moon as a platform to serve us here on Earth or serve us to go to other places and explore other places.
[00:28:44] Yifat: I think the moon will be another Earth eventually, because the mankind will never stop. And later on, it will go all the way push to Mars because the curiosity. So everything will, be the same, as soon as you have a good enough mobility. If Musk succeeds, and it brings these 150, 200 tons soon, then, everything opens up.
And you’ll go for your vacation to the Moon. It’s just three days away, if you can, resist the those conditions in the spacecraft and the rocket.
[00:29:20] Jacob Sager: From a Jewish ethical or philosophical perspective, what principles do you think should guide humanity’s approach to space exploration and potential human migration into space?
[00:29:36] Dan: I’ll take a first stab at that. I think that an important element in Jewish tradition is environmental protection. If you think of almost all the holidays, they have an element of environmental protection. If you think of the fact that you’re not allowed to use certain fields once every seven years and so on, it’s to protect the environment, to protect the soil.
Think that from a Jewish perspective, the most important thing is that whatever we do on the moon cannot harm the environment, and we have to be aware of the impact of what we’re doing there.
[00:30:13] Yifat: I don’t know what exactly should be Jewish about that or not, probably yes, but I think there is much more than just that, it said that Israel is one of the most talented country that produces IPs like so fast. relatively. Is it the Jewish genes? Is it the mothers? Is it the struggles here with the existence? I don’t know maybe, but I’m not sure I would emphasize that 100%.
I would just say that, and it goes as double when you speak about the Holocaust that we recently mentioned: the feeling that you need to take care of the next generations. The fact that you cannot live in peace and quiet because it’s a hostile environment, no matter what year it is, and look what’s happening now. Oh sure, that brings you to the conclusion that we’re done here. We should go fast to the moon. We should do everything from the start. Looks so bad. So if you’re looking at the next generations, and you think of your legacy, and what’s your liability, There are tons of reservoirs there at the moon. And you need to put your hands there and bring it or use it there. And see what happens when there are wars like Ukraine, the world is going crazy, prices are so high. Everything: transportation, the wheat, everything. So, you start to feel insecure, and you’re looking for extras. What do you have that you can take and bring some more? And, as an overall problem, how are you going to feed everyone when the population is getting so big? And probably there will not be enough for everyone. So I’m not sure if it’s Jewish: maybe not, maybe just partially? But, ethical and philosophy issues here are: You came to life not just to eat and have fun and have your wine. I mean you have something to do with your next generation: do something important. Okay? If you can, use it and do it. That’s what I personally think.
[00:32:33] Jacob Sager: Question that just came to mind is from an American perspective, very much because of the Apollo days and just the realities of using satellites as part of the defense infrastructure is from the American perspective, we see a lot of space and space opportunities as being at contentious ends with Russia and with China and their goals, which may not necessarily be the same kind of free world goals that we have.
I’m curious from an Israeli perspective, being in a different place diplomatically and being in a different place as the startup nation, in the different industries that make up the space industries all over the world, if there’s an opportunity for Israel in the space age and on the moon or beyond planet Earth to have an interesting impact on international relationships.
[00:33:28] Dan: I’ll take that one. First of all, you spoke about the defense issue. Obviously, space is an important place to be, to use in order to look at you in the areas around you and that’s for defense reasons, environmental issues and so on.
But the ability to go to space and the ability to work with other nations, it’s extremely important for Israel to showcase its capabilities and technologies.
Think of the hopper, WeSpace and the hopper. Leidos is not interested in, because it’s Israeli, it’s interested because of the technology. Because it’s an enabler for Leidos. It’ll be an enabler for other companies also. As much as we can showcase our technologies, And work with companies like Leidos. Leidos will be coming back to look at other technologies also in Israel. So it’s a showcase of our abilities.
It’s also an issue of collaboration. We have collaboration with other nations. Italy, for example. We have a joint satellite with France, the Venus satellite which allowed our engineers and our scientists to work with colleagues in other countries and show that Israel is not only about war, but also doing a lot of science and good science, which gets published in top notch journals.
So it is an enabler.
We’re also looking at collaborations. We had a joint call with the UAE and several projects came out of that. We’re looking at other collaborations with the UAE, we have certain collaborations with other countries, Arab countries that are often thought of in the geopolitical context of the environment that we’re in, thought of as enemies. But we can work with them in space. So I think that space becomes an enabler also for peace, for sharing ideas, for talking, for discussing not only our geopolitical problems.
[00:35:36] Kathy: I very much agree with that. Look at the cooperation in space between the United States and Russia during the Cold War. There was scientific collaboration exchange. There were Apollo Soyuz test flight missions. It built a strong respect for each other’s capabilities and a strong realization between both countries that, that space is really a resource that supports mankind and not just, not just country boundaries.
You look at the earth from space and you don’t see, lines dividing countries. Weather patterns that affect multiple people. Communications cones that service multiple countries. So it’s a great, space is a great place to collaborate and build international relationships.
It’s
[00:36:21] Dan: I think that one of the most exciting pictures from space is the first picture of one of the Apollo missions coming up behind the moon and looking at Earth rising in the in the horizon over there. And you suddenly realize that, okay, we’re only one planet in a huge cosmos. And in order to be able to work in space, we have to collaborate.
It’s an expensive endeavor. It’s a risky environment. A space station wouldn’t be built by one nation only. It was a collaboration of nations. And by the way, it’s also fun sharing ideas and a lot of creativity comes. From multicultural collaborations. And here in Israel, we understand that. We want to be able to talk to our neighbors. We want to be able to talk not only about the war going on in Gaza, but also about building another little satellite between students sharing ideas. Or using the hopper to get new data about the moon and having students from Israel, the U. S., India, and Saudi Arabia working together on the data that’ll come back from the WeSpace mission.
[00:37:39] Yifat: I
think there is a great project that the U. S. leads now, called Artemis. This is a great endeavor that really shows the beauty of human collaborations. And we are one, WeSpace is one of the candidates to be, considered as the Israeli contribution for the Artemis project. Meaning:
that Israel will donate a hopper to that project. And we are designing a mission with NASA Ames. Negotiations, nothing is done yet, but it’s moving on very nicely. They’re doing a great job, very serious persons there. And I think it’s gonna be a huge news. And Professor Dani is a great supporter. I think he’s the one to receive the thank you and maybe if it fails, I’ll send it to you, also, Danny, you think that?
[00:38:36] Dan: Success has many failures. Yeah, of
[00:38:41] Yifat: course. And, of course, Kathy. . Kathy pushed that further and further with all these struggles, the bureaucracy of the U. S. And we got together in a T. A., a very nice agreement, and we are partners. So you can see different nations, different people, different genders, different perspectives; lawyers, engineers, whatever. When you get together and you get those different minds, different perspectives, you can just be much more clever, and turned out that when you talk about hatred and enemies and countries that do not get together well it turned out that when you have big interests, it overcomes the hatred.
There is a major force called interests, and that’s fine, as long as it reaches the right results. So Artemis is a beautiful project.
[00:39:45] Dan: I’ll take that issue of Artemis. Artemis has two elements. One is the Artemis Accords, and one is the Artemis Mission. So the Artemis Accords talk about collaboration and protection of the Earth, of space, working together between nations.
The Artemis Mission is aimed at the moment at going back to the Moon. Was a much bigger challenge than it was during Apollo, much bigger rocket, being able to build a base on the moon. And some of the challenges are related to to the hostile environment, having astronauts sitting on the moon for quite a while.
So during the first mission, Artemis 1, Israel had a joint project with Germany and the U. S. where two mannequins, two dolls were on the mission, one named Helga, German, one named Zohar. Both were instrumented with a lot of instruments measuring radiation. The difference being that on Zohar, we had an Israeli vest, radiation vest, a very lightweight vest that could protect Zohar.
And we measured together with the Germans if that actually protects the astronauts, if it’ll protect them in the future. By the way, the answer is yes, but the papers are going to come out in the near future.
But I think that the most important point that I wanted to make over there is, last week we marked the Holocaust day. Eighty years ago, who would have thought that Israel and Germany would be collaborating on a mission to protect human life in space? The WeSpace hopper, maybe in the future, will be a joint mission with The UAE, Saudi Arabia, the U. S. looking at lava tubes on the moon.
[00:41:40] Yifat: When we talk about No, please, you can go. Go
ahead.
[00:41:46] Jacob Sager: I was going to say you could go, but so I’ll just take to the next question, which is Artemis going back to the moon, Dr. Bloomberg and Dr. Lorena, you talked about the Apollo 11 experience as a young person deeply inspiring you, and I’m wondering what moment do you think needs to take place now that could inspire you’re all industry folk, plenty of people outside to inspire more people to get that this is really happening, that this economy is on, that you have multiple nations who are working very hard at these greater things that might not necessarily be visually realized at this moment, but are coming about.
[00:42:29] Kathy: From my perspective there’s a lot of exciting plans as NASA tests out the Artemis hardware, NASA and its international partners test out the Artemis hardware, sending people around the moon, landing people on the moon again, it’s been, 50 over 50 years since that happened.
Getting the, um, this, the many people on this earth were not alive, then there’s peck. There’s people who probably still think the moon landings were faked. So I think it’ll be exciting once again to see people on the moon, see some of these robotic landers land, continue to land safely.
And I think it will be important to realize that unlike Apollo, where the goal of Apollo was to get men on the moon and beat the Russians in doing so. The goal of Artemis is to get humanity to go back to the moon in a sustained way. So the hardware that’s being designed will enable people to test out all sorts of different concepts, do all sorts of different science; unlike the Apollo, which was specifically designed to get there fast and first. So this new set of systems and partnerships so much more to be done. And with so many different Ideas about what can be done on and around the moon and cislunar space, as you said, there’ll be a lot of exciting activities discoveries. And my perspective is it will just keep raising interest and multiplying the effects.
[00:43:55] Dan: Think of on the Apollo mission, one of the cool things that I remember is the two astronauts running and singing as they bounce on the moon. I don’t even remember what it was. Some children’s song as they were bouncing on the moon. Thinking, think of astronauts going back to the moon. Throwing their food on the moon or playing a basketball game on the moon and talking on the cell phone with the kids Using the
[00:44:23] Jacob Sager: land different in the age of TikTok.
[00:44:27] Dan: Yeah Do some tiTikTokhings on the moon
[00:44:30] Jacob Sager: I want to ask a roundtable question kind of to wrap up here, which is If you were to go to space, what would you bring with you, whether you were just going to the International Space Station or the moon or beyond, it can be your choice in this thought experiment, but I’ve, I asked all my guests this question.
[00:44:56] Yigal: As we did in Bereshit, we would always take our flag. First. Always,
[00:45:03] Kathy: I would take a picture of my children because that reminds me why, why I do this, to make the world a better place for them.
[00:45:11] Dan: So I’ll answer on the less serious note at the end. I’ll take with me return ticket. .
[00:45:17] Yigal: Okay,
[00:45:18] Yifat: I’ll take more Prokofiev, number two concerto. I’ll take my classical music, but just kidding. That’s a nice question. Children is one important idea. Flags and everything. But can we bring some news there? Can we take something different? Can we convey a new message to, as a newcomers to the moon?
I don’t know, I have to think of that. But we should for sure make it a better place. Okay I think that’s what’s going on now, everywhere, with the antisemite, with the caliphate ideas,. People are going crazy; I think, most of us are bored. All those are, that are feeling very bored, come to the moon, there’s so much to do there, they’re gonna be so occupied, You’re gonna forget how easy it is to hate someone else.
[00:46:17] Dan: So I think that if I went now, and I think that timing is, everything is about timing, I’d have this with me, which says bring them home now.
[00:46:27] Yifat: Yeah, we’re waiting for our hostages, who could believe.
[00:46:33] Jacob Sager: So I’ll also wrap up the recording here. Love to do it again. I definitely have more questions. I know, I didn’t even get to in the course of our hour together. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you Yifat, in particular for, I reached out to you and you invited everyone else here. Thank you, Yigal. Thank you, dr. Bloomberg. Thank you. Dr. Larini. I’m forever grateful.
[00:46:55] Kathy: Thank you very much for the chance to participate today. Jacob, thank you very much.
It was an interesting set of questions. Appreciate it.
[00:47:00] Yigal: Cheers. Mazal tov. Be well, happy. Thank you so much.
[00:47:05] Yifat: Thank you so much. Thank you. And we are here gladly to be again with you. Bye.